I expected so much more chatter on Bluesky or Twitter, but I didn’t really see anything. I’m wondering if it was just the news cycle, but it feels very under the radar, and they haven’t disclosed who is keeping their jobs or any of that just yet.
i LOVE the way you're talking so honestly about what big money can't and probably cant do in publishing here ! my friend the wonderful novelist hilary plum & i talked about catapult and that huge money in fence a while ago https://fenceportal.org/literature-capital-catapult-and-the-kochs-a-dialogue/ i think this was before the big perception box announcement but it's all a blur lol
oh I LOVE this and especially the Sackler metaphor which is such an apt one. It's so hard because of course I want literature, writers, editors, magazines to both function and be paid but at what costs. And the "purer money" hilary mentions, I'm starting to believe maybe doesn't exist at all? It's either Koch money or "starving artist"--the stratification is so deep at this point, and I'm having trouble (in our current political and world situation) to believe riches can ever be ... good? Good is a terrible word to have here. It's like there's ALWAYS a catch. And to be fair Tin House is also currently owned by a millionaire, who is getting up there in age and wants to see its legacy continue, but I'm just not sure this was the move to crystalize that legacy. I wonder what it would have looked like if Tin House staff was offered a co-op situation by Win. That seems like it could have been something special, and why not trust the people you've already trusted for years? I also love the conversation here about class consciousness too--about the ways we look at the range of middle class folks and then the billionaires, and what it does in our psyche. So true, so needed. I hope it gets seen more widely in this comment section!
ah YES YES YES a thousand times yes! a literary institution like tin house feels like a forever thing, but of course it can go away. like so many of the august literary journals and presses from when i was younger that no longer exist. it seems better, to ME, to risk going away than to be acquired by a billionaire.
i love that you're a publicist thinking so deeply about these things, fills me w hope
Ah I love what you say about the forever thing and I wonder how much stock we’re putting in thinking that like during submissions, and trying to think through the all-enveloping-it-feels idea of platform and things. We’re leaning on these institutions, but also they’re leaning on us—our submissions, our bylines, our hunger to be in them and read them. There’s something to be said for that that I think we have to take back as a writing community a little more. And thank you, I try my best!
I love this conversation, which seems even more pointed and painful now post an election that was much more blatantly bought and sold than ever before leading to the destruction of public funding for arts, education, safety, nature etc so that private money becomes even more powerful and commercial interests even more necessary.... All enormously depressing obv but a smart and honest conversation about it still gives hope.
Publisher had a ton of his money stolen by his chauffeur and didn’t notice it for a long while, so I can only imagine what the financial mess was at Tin House (picture my expression here since you can’t see it): https://www.pdxmonthly.com/news-and-city-life/2024/02/tin-house-mccormack-fraud. He also bought The New Republic a few years back and that must have cost some coins too, so perhaps frying bigger fish in NYC now. I dunno. Sad and concerning news on Tin House in any case.
Yeaaaaa I don’t think it was a financial decision (from what I’ve heard from folks on the inside) but definitely aging-related (chauffeur incident confirms some stuff there) and from what I understand a push to continue Tin House’s legacy. Tin House, as an imprint, was self-sustaining (I believe!)
I knew him in a former job and he isn’t that old. From Portland Monthly: “Federal prosecutors called it an “eye-watering” sum. How, exactly, can $34 million disappear before the alarm bells start ringing? In court filings, McCormack admitted to rarely looking at his credit card statements.” This went on for seven years and it was charged to his AmEx card. !!!
Thank you for this nuanced take, Cassie. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of chatter about this online (that I can see) but I would bet there are some group chats on fire about this… I also love TH and have attended the workshop twice… wonder how this news is sitting with them 🥺
I am hoping Lance is going to keep separate the workshops, but we’ll see! That would make Tin House kind of a weird entity! Maybe they’ll bring back the magazine, ha! One can hope!
Also interested what this means for the Debut Novel call they had recently. I submitted a manuscript and am yet to hear back so it’s interesting this is all very much new during that limbo.
As someone who attended the Tin House workshop this past winter, I feel like I just joined the family and now it’s getting divorced 😩
I was upset about this too. I mean, I'm sure it's great news for anyone with a pre-existing financial stake in Tin House (including authors of back list titles, who will probably get extra sales and maybe adaptation deals), but I can't see it being good for anyone who had been hoping to work with Tin House. And it's always sad to see mid-level opportunities go away.
My dream of being one day published by Tin House—so far only a nice note from them—is dashed. I would not touch anything with a Murdoch name attached and I don’t see my work sitting on a shelf beside John Legend or Nicole Kidman, or whomever has the latest ghost-written celebrity book. Oh, Tin House, you are driving me to eat chocolate.
Adding to the chorus of happy to see someone look at this more closely, as the news unsettled me too. The other thing that got shuttered with Catapult was their thriving teaching arm, which has yet to be replicated from a teaching (and as I understand it, student) perspective. I know lots of editors and agents share the feeling that it was an incubator for a lot of excellent writing and writing community, and two years out I am still trying to find an organization as solid to teach with. The whims of billionaires are not the steadiest underpinnings of creative enterprises. Hoping this story ends differently for Tin House.
oh yes! of course! I have some friends who took the novel incubator and I took a class on pitching essays way, way back. There were so many good ones for so many different things. I think Writing Workshops Dallas is a good alternative (they've partnered with Electric Lit as well), and Off Assignment also runs some great classes. The incubator model though, other than Grub Street and maybe Lighthouse, I haven't really seen replicated!
As a plus for Tin House, while they're all under the same umbrella, the workshops is a separate entity (connected by title), so I think Lance will do everything in his power to keep that going.
I haven't heard of some of these places, thank you! From a teaching pov, Catapult had a way of treating instructors with a ton of transparency, support, and flexibility, which attracted students who had realistic expectations and big ambitions, and the classes always filled, providing the stability teaching writers need. I haven't found that combo just yet since. I have lots of hope for the teaching and podcasting arms of Tin House to stay steady, too. Between the Covers is the smartest literary podcast out there.
I'm so glad someone dug into this more. (Also surprised it's NOT getting discussed more, but maybe I'm not looking in the right places.)
I expected so much more chatter on Bluesky or Twitter, but I didn’t really see anything. I’m wondering if it was just the news cycle, but it feels very under the radar, and they haven’t disclosed who is keeping their jobs or any of that just yet.
i LOVE the way you're talking so honestly about what big money can't and probably cant do in publishing here ! my friend the wonderful novelist hilary plum & i talked about catapult and that huge money in fence a while ago https://fenceportal.org/literature-capital-catapult-and-the-kochs-a-dialogue/ i think this was before the big perception box announcement but it's all a blur lol
oh I LOVE this and especially the Sackler metaphor which is such an apt one. It's so hard because of course I want literature, writers, editors, magazines to both function and be paid but at what costs. And the "purer money" hilary mentions, I'm starting to believe maybe doesn't exist at all? It's either Koch money or "starving artist"--the stratification is so deep at this point, and I'm having trouble (in our current political and world situation) to believe riches can ever be ... good? Good is a terrible word to have here. It's like there's ALWAYS a catch. And to be fair Tin House is also currently owned by a millionaire, who is getting up there in age and wants to see its legacy continue, but I'm just not sure this was the move to crystalize that legacy. I wonder what it would have looked like if Tin House staff was offered a co-op situation by Win. That seems like it could have been something special, and why not trust the people you've already trusted for years? I also love the conversation here about class consciousness too--about the ways we look at the range of middle class folks and then the billionaires, and what it does in our psyche. So true, so needed. I hope it gets seen more widely in this comment section!
ah YES YES YES a thousand times yes! a literary institution like tin house feels like a forever thing, but of course it can go away. like so many of the august literary journals and presses from when i was younger that no longer exist. it seems better, to ME, to risk going away than to be acquired by a billionaire.
i love that you're a publicist thinking so deeply about these things, fills me w hope
Ah I love what you say about the forever thing and I wonder how much stock we’re putting in thinking that like during submissions, and trying to think through the all-enveloping-it-feels idea of platform and things. We’re leaning on these institutions, but also they’re leaning on us—our submissions, our bylines, our hunger to be in them and read them. There’s something to be said for that that I think we have to take back as a writing community a little more. And thank you, I try my best!
I love this conversation, which seems even more pointed and painful now post an election that was much more blatantly bought and sold than ever before leading to the destruction of public funding for arts, education, safety, nature etc so that private money becomes even more powerful and commercial interests even more necessary.... All enormously depressing obv but a smart and honest conversation about it still gives hope.
Ah Zoe, I feel very much the same! It feels at the moment like there are no wins but I am remaining hopeful!
THANK YOU for reading! Completely agree that it seems more painful now.
I’m weirdly emotional about this too, like you? Love Tin House, and I attended the Writers Workshop and thus feel proprietary lol
it’s yours! It’s all of ours. I love Tin House! I love their books! I am feeling meh!
Publisher had a ton of his money stolen by his chauffeur and didn’t notice it for a long while, so I can only imagine what the financial mess was at Tin House (picture my expression here since you can’t see it): https://www.pdxmonthly.com/news-and-city-life/2024/02/tin-house-mccormack-fraud. He also bought The New Republic a few years back and that must have cost some coins too, so perhaps frying bigger fish in NYC now. I dunno. Sad and concerning news on Tin House in any case.
Yeaaaaa I don’t think it was a financial decision (from what I’ve heard from folks on the inside) but definitely aging-related (chauffeur incident confirms some stuff there) and from what I understand a push to continue Tin House’s legacy. Tin House, as an imprint, was self-sustaining (I believe!)
Today I learned it *might* be solely an asset acquisition with no money exchanged 🙃🙃🙃🙃
Interesting!
I knew him in a former job and he isn’t that old. From Portland Monthly: “Federal prosecutors called it an “eye-watering” sum. How, exactly, can $34 million disappear before the alarm bells start ringing? In court filings, McCormack admitted to rarely looking at his credit card statements.” This went on for seven years and it was charged to his AmEx card. !!!
Loooool must be nice being so rich you can lose millions and not notice!!! 80+ was what I was told?
Thank you for this nuanced take, Cassie. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of chatter about this online (that I can see) but I would bet there are some group chats on fire about this… I also love TH and have attended the workshop twice… wonder how this news is sitting with them 🥺
I am hoping Lance is going to keep separate the workshops, but we’ll see! That would make Tin House kind of a weird entity! Maybe they’ll bring back the magazine, ha! One can hope!
Also interested what this means for the Debut Novel call they had recently. I submitted a manuscript and am yet to hear back so it’s interesting this is all very much new during that limbo.
As someone who attended the Tin House workshop this past winter, I feel like I just joined the family and now it’s getting divorced 😩
Oh no! That’s true too, I wonder when the actual sale will happen, and whether it’ll be after or before debuts. You could be a Zando debut!
I was upset about this too. I mean, I'm sure it's great news for anyone with a pre-existing financial stake in Tin House (including authors of back list titles, who will probably get extra sales and maybe adaptation deals), but I can't see it being good for anyone who had been hoping to work with Tin House. And it's always sad to see mid-level opportunities go away.
Fingers crossed on those adaption deals!!!
Hasn't this year been bad enough already?!!! Ugh.
Amen sister!
Wonder if this has anything to do with it: https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2025/03/perverse-greed-couple-who-stole-34m-from-publisher-win-mccormack-get-5-years-in-prison.html
Yes! But not in that he was in financial trouble or anything.
My dream of being one day published by Tin House—so far only a nice note from them—is dashed. I would not touch anything with a Murdoch name attached and I don’t see my work sitting on a shelf beside John Legend or Nicole Kidman, or whomever has the latest ghost-written celebrity book. Oh, Tin House, you are driving me to eat chocolate.
No ghost writing! (As far as I can tell!) it’s curated selections by those folks not books by them. But same, alas. 🥲
Ah!
This distilled all my bummer feelings, thank you. 😭
Literally thought of you when I read this news and was like PLEASE keep fighting the good fight!
Thank you for saying what we’re all thinking!!!
<3 I have learned some news about this that gave me a little more hope, and so I am passing that along!
Adding to the chorus of happy to see someone look at this more closely, as the news unsettled me too. The other thing that got shuttered with Catapult was their thriving teaching arm, which has yet to be replicated from a teaching (and as I understand it, student) perspective. I know lots of editors and agents share the feeling that it was an incubator for a lot of excellent writing and writing community, and two years out I am still trying to find an organization as solid to teach with. The whims of billionaires are not the steadiest underpinnings of creative enterprises. Hoping this story ends differently for Tin House.
oh yes! of course! I have some friends who took the novel incubator and I took a class on pitching essays way, way back. There were so many good ones for so many different things. I think Writing Workshops Dallas is a good alternative (they've partnered with Electric Lit as well), and Off Assignment also runs some great classes. The incubator model though, other than Grub Street and maybe Lighthouse, I haven't really seen replicated!
As a plus for Tin House, while they're all under the same umbrella, the workshops is a separate entity (connected by title), so I think Lance will do everything in his power to keep that going.
I haven't heard of some of these places, thank you! From a teaching pov, Catapult had a way of treating instructors with a ton of transparency, support, and flexibility, which attracted students who had realistic expectations and big ambitions, and the classes always filled, providing the stability teaching writers need. I haven't found that combo just yet since. I have lots of hope for the teaching and podcasting arms of Tin House to stay steady, too. Between the Covers is the smartest literary podcast out there.
The zando statement sounds like corporate bilge puked out by an AI
https://open.substack.com/pub/marlowe1/p/job-chapter-33?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=sllf3