This is such a good question. I am a writer who has invested heavily in writing coaches, but I guess I think of writing coaches as helping with the *writing* distinct from the *publishing.* I worked for years with writing coaches whose writing I LOVED, so their advice was helpful to me because the goal was to improve my writing. When they gave me advice about agents and selling a book, I took it with a grain of salt. That wasn't the expertise I was looking for from them. When I wanted to sell my book, I did consults with coaches who knew more about getting book deals. Once my book sold, I started working with people who knew more about book publishing: I hired an outside PR firm, and I found a new coach - Courtney Maum - to help with book publishing because that IS her expertise (and she has been INVALUABLE). Improving your writing, selling a book and having a successful book launch are three very distinct projects, so it makes sense to me that you'd hire three different people for that. The question is, are those coaches willing to say, "I'm not the person for this phase you're in" Everyone I've hired has been clear with me where their expertise begins and ends, and that's the key.
I love this breakdown of each step and how you thought it all through. This makes sense to me AND the writing part particularly for those who can’t do traditionally studies in writing or need more of a one-on-one approach to things or simply want to do a different style of writing practice. I am curious about loving the writer and taking the step in trusting them with your own writing. I guess that’s the MFA mentality too, but I don’t necessarily believe a person who writes well can help me write well. It has to be specific to the person, as is everything, right?
Yes, good point. But I think that's really the case for anybody that you hire to help you (stylist, therapist, book coach)...you have to try to know if it's a good fit, and give it a few sessions to see if it's actually helping. I found it more effective than workshops and more affordable than an MFA.
Hi Emma! One thing that strikes me in this conversation is how you-- from the beginning, it seems--have had the ability to feel into and trust your own gut. My experience working with a lot of people in this realm is that this piece can be a little bit shaky (or massively broken) for some writers--and so part of what they're outsourcing from coaches is a sense of certainty, a clarity of path, and that (of course) makes all the dynamics discussed elsewhere in these threads even more fraught. The best coaching helps people honor their own instincts. I was always so impressed that you took our conversations about the MFA world and settled into the clarity that you didn't need one-- and here you are having built something that got you where you wanted to go, in the right way for you. It's kind of funny to be the MFA coach who not only didn't get you into an MFA but who helped you steer away from them-- but it feels correct in this case!
Haha okay I appreciate that SO much! And actually, a piece of advice you gave me during our MFA consults was hugely influential for me. I think I've been as guilty as anybody of frantically hoping for a coach to FIX things for me, or to show me the A-Z path of getting a book deal. And of course, I've hired people who weren't right, and taken advice that ended up being wrong for me, etc etc, but I've also been incredibly lucky to work with such insightful, humble, wise people - like you! - who have pushed back when I'm like "just tell me what to do!" and reminded me that I need to look within myself. So much gratitude <3
It’s good then that we have a buffet of options! Ah yes, the Iowa effect, the way we judge MFA programs is a whole other thing entirely, mine was free from fellowships and I am one of those people who say you shouldn’t pay for an MFA, but that’s also not feasible for everyone’s circumstances!
I work in the world of scientific grants and since graduate school I’ve had a similar bugaboo with how this skill is taught. Frequently someone who’s received the grant will be tapped to give a workshop on what it takes to write a successful application. This has never made sense to me. That person wasn’t in the room when the decision was made. Who’s to say their experience will generalize or that the things that are salient to them are what stood out to the reviewers? Anyway, thank you for the unexpected chance to air this grievance.
Also, Banal Nightmare by Halle Butler surprised me.
I’ve always been skeptical of anything with the word coach after it, unless the word preceding it was a sport. Life Coach. Business Coach. Spiritual Coach. Book Coach.
So when I found out about book coaching I was super skeptical, but I was stuck on a manuscript and didn’t want to pay for a program where I had to read other people’s work. I wanted 1:1 attention. I used Author Accelerator’s matching service and was surprised when I was matched with someone who specialized in academic writing.
I was writing a literary manuscript. It didn’t make any sense. We had an intro call and it was clear right away she was not the right fit.
Then I heard a coach on The Shit No One Tells You About Writing and read reviews she had written about different literary novels where she broke down what was happening in each one and really split it all apart like a diagram.
I ended up working with her for a series of time to get unstuck and edit my draft. Because as you said, I needed accountability.
The thing is, the coach I worked with is an incredible writer and she is my ideal audience. She loves books that would be considered comps to what I was writing so she knew how I wanted to project to go and pushed me to finish it. Perhaps it’s uncommon but we became really good friends and cheer each other on now and share resources.
So I agree, I’m weary that all these coaches can actually offer what they say they can, but as for the one I worked with, she’s the real deal and I’d recommend her highly.
So well said, Cassie. I actually discuss some of this in my classes. I let people know that the coaching industry is unregulated. There are some coaches out there who promise the world (an agent!! a book deal!! media placement!!) and charge big bucks for that dishonest service.
I’m a journalist first so I use that experience to warn students about how predatory the coaching industry can be and how it’s often plagued by misinformation or get-rich-quick schemes.
Nothing in our industry is quick and very few people actually get rich 🤣
Unregulated is the word I think I was looking for this whole time (so much of publishing works this way—us too!). I know folks who use the word coach as an umbrella term for their good work but I also see so much proliferation on Instagram especially of coaching that doesn’t feel genuine. I’m so glad you’re speaking to this in classes!
You’re so right. Before taking on new clients and teaching classes I tell them I can’t guarantee a book deal or an agent. A lot of my work comes from my mental health advocacy of knowing what we can and can’t control. So I teach from that perspective.
Can control: writing a killer proposal then submitting it to agents
Thank you so much for writing this! I definitely feel skeptical of the coaching industry in general. A decade ago I worked helping artists fundraise at a large non-profit and I found that during that time coaches offering to give artists the same advice I was giving for free as part of my mission-funded job for a hefty fee that most working artists couldn't afford. While I am happy to pay for skills and expertise that are outside of my skillset, I feel the coaching industry is ambiguous and really stands to take advantage of people who desperately want access to something like the publishing industry or in the case of my old job, artist grants, as you so elegantly stated.
Eleanor, this sounds like a tough, but very necessary job! And I totally agree--I think, for me, what I maybe didn't get at here, is it's another transparency issue in an industry that already lacks transparency. So, if you're grasping at straws and someone claims to have an in--whether they do or not, how do we vet what's real? I think, too, you literally wouldn't know otherwise, right? You would take the advice and do some research, but could you actually (italics) KNOW what coaches are saying is real. I don't know. I do think there are some amazing coaches who do brilliant work, and then some where I wonder what they do at all. The fees are another thing--it feel like a PRICE TAG for knowledge that's simply not available anywhere else--which I guess is how we've built capitalism but bleh.
Absolutely, capitalism is set up to keep knowledge opaque and gated (and so is philanthropy I found working in that world, but that's a topic for another day)! I think that sometimes we all want the secret to or formula for success and as you stated, it looks different for everyone and is dependent upon so many factors! I do think there are great coaches out there, but I also I wonder sometimes, what are they offering besides accountability and encouragement (important) in shiny, branded packaging. I also left my non-profit job for corporate marketing, so maybe I am a bit cynical. All this to say, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this!
Your note about encouragement also made me wonder if this is a space that would be traditionally taken up as a sort of writers community, writers group, even a group of friends who understand the writing world fairly and can get by in talking through ideas and brainstorms and be that encouragement factor. I do feel like we've lost real-life community in the past few years alongside the rise of coaches and the one thing it definitely is, is human-to-human. And also maybe I'm cynical too, and I'm sniffing it out from the perspective of like ... but would I (EYE!) pay for this? I appreciate your thoughts too--from multiple angles!
Thank you! You articulated it exactly: In late capitalism/everyone is a brand/the gig economy we've monetized care and community and taken the human connection beyond a monetary exchange out of it. I do think that many of the roles coaches fill can and do happen in writers groups, community, and among friends. Maybe it's the old DIY punk in me, but often with some of what coaches offer I find myself asking, "Could I get this in a mutually beneficial community instead? Can I build this myself?" Again, I see value in institutions (I have an MFA) and getting professional guidance and support (I love writing workshops! I'm working with a developmental editor!) but I always start with what can be built in community first. Thank you again for all your thought and conversation around this.
This is such a good question. I am a writer who has invested heavily in writing coaches, but I guess I think of writing coaches as helping with the *writing* distinct from the *publishing.* I worked for years with writing coaches whose writing I LOVED, so their advice was helpful to me because the goal was to improve my writing. When they gave me advice about agents and selling a book, I took it with a grain of salt. That wasn't the expertise I was looking for from them. When I wanted to sell my book, I did consults with coaches who knew more about getting book deals. Once my book sold, I started working with people who knew more about book publishing: I hired an outside PR firm, and I found a new coach - Courtney Maum - to help with book publishing because that IS her expertise (and she has been INVALUABLE). Improving your writing, selling a book and having a successful book launch are three very distinct projects, so it makes sense to me that you'd hire three different people for that. The question is, are those coaches willing to say, "I'm not the person for this phase you're in" Everyone I've hired has been clear with me where their expertise begins and ends, and that's the key.
I love this breakdown of each step and how you thought it all through. This makes sense to me AND the writing part particularly for those who can’t do traditionally studies in writing or need more of a one-on-one approach to things or simply want to do a different style of writing practice. I am curious about loving the writer and taking the step in trusting them with your own writing. I guess that’s the MFA mentality too, but I don’t necessarily believe a person who writes well can help me write well. It has to be specific to the person, as is everything, right?
Yes, good point. But I think that's really the case for anybody that you hire to help you (stylist, therapist, book coach)...you have to try to know if it's a good fit, and give it a few sessions to see if it's actually helping. I found it more effective than workshops and more affordable than an MFA.
Hi Emma! One thing that strikes me in this conversation is how you-- from the beginning, it seems--have had the ability to feel into and trust your own gut. My experience working with a lot of people in this realm is that this piece can be a little bit shaky (or massively broken) for some writers--and so part of what they're outsourcing from coaches is a sense of certainty, a clarity of path, and that (of course) makes all the dynamics discussed elsewhere in these threads even more fraught. The best coaching helps people honor their own instincts. I was always so impressed that you took our conversations about the MFA world and settled into the clarity that you didn't need one-- and here you are having built something that got you where you wanted to go, in the right way for you. It's kind of funny to be the MFA coach who not only didn't get you into an MFA but who helped you steer away from them-- but it feels correct in this case!
Haha okay I appreciate that SO much! And actually, a piece of advice you gave me during our MFA consults was hugely influential for me. I think I've been as guilty as anybody of frantically hoping for a coach to FIX things for me, or to show me the A-Z path of getting a book deal. And of course, I've hired people who weren't right, and taken advice that ended up being wrong for me, etc etc, but I've also been incredibly lucky to work with such insightful, humble, wise people - like you! - who have pushed back when I'm like "just tell me what to do!" and reminded me that I need to look within myself. So much gratitude <3
In fact, two friends who have gone to Iowa have asked for my coach's info bc they see how invaluable it has been for me.
It’s good then that we have a buffet of options! Ah yes, the Iowa effect, the way we judge MFA programs is a whole other thing entirely, mine was free from fellowships and I am one of those people who say you shouldn’t pay for an MFA, but that’s also not feasible for everyone’s circumstances!
I work in the world of scientific grants and since graduate school I’ve had a similar bugaboo with how this skill is taught. Frequently someone who’s received the grant will be tapped to give a workshop on what it takes to write a successful application. This has never made sense to me. That person wasn’t in the room when the decision was made. Who’s to say their experience will generalize or that the things that are salient to them are what stood out to the reviewers? Anyway, thank you for the unexpected chance to air this grievance.
Also, Banal Nightmare by Halle Butler surprised me.
I’ve always been skeptical of anything with the word coach after it, unless the word preceding it was a sport. Life Coach. Business Coach. Spiritual Coach. Book Coach.
So when I found out about book coaching I was super skeptical, but I was stuck on a manuscript and didn’t want to pay for a program where I had to read other people’s work. I wanted 1:1 attention. I used Author Accelerator’s matching service and was surprised when I was matched with someone who specialized in academic writing.
I was writing a literary manuscript. It didn’t make any sense. We had an intro call and it was clear right away she was not the right fit.
Then I heard a coach on The Shit No One Tells You About Writing and read reviews she had written about different literary novels where she broke down what was happening in each one and really split it all apart like a diagram.
I ended up working with her for a series of time to get unstuck and edit my draft. Because as you said, I needed accountability.
The thing is, the coach I worked with is an incredible writer and she is my ideal audience. She loves books that would be considered comps to what I was writing so she knew how I wanted to project to go and pushed me to finish it. Perhaps it’s uncommon but we became really good friends and cheer each other on now and share resources.
So I agree, I’m weary that all these coaches can actually offer what they say they can, but as for the one I worked with, she’s the real deal and I’d recommend her highly.
So well said, Cassie. I actually discuss some of this in my classes. I let people know that the coaching industry is unregulated. There are some coaches out there who promise the world (an agent!! a book deal!! media placement!!) and charge big bucks for that dishonest service.
I’m a journalist first so I use that experience to warn students about how predatory the coaching industry can be and how it’s often plagued by misinformation or get-rich-quick schemes.
Nothing in our industry is quick and very few people actually get rich 🤣
Thanks for writing this. Love your work!
Unregulated is the word I think I was looking for this whole time (so much of publishing works this way—us too!). I know folks who use the word coach as an umbrella term for their good work but I also see so much proliferation on Instagram especially of coaching that doesn’t feel genuine. I’m so glad you’re speaking to this in classes!
The not quick / not rich scheme! 😂
You’re so right. Before taking on new clients and teaching classes I tell them I can’t guarantee a book deal or an agent. A lot of my work comes from my mental health advocacy of knowing what we can and can’t control. So I teach from that perspective.
Can control: writing a killer proposal then submitting it to agents
Can’t control: signing with an agent/publisher
Thank you so much for writing this! I definitely feel skeptical of the coaching industry in general. A decade ago I worked helping artists fundraise at a large non-profit and I found that during that time coaches offering to give artists the same advice I was giving for free as part of my mission-funded job for a hefty fee that most working artists couldn't afford. While I am happy to pay for skills and expertise that are outside of my skillset, I feel the coaching industry is ambiguous and really stands to take advantage of people who desperately want access to something like the publishing industry or in the case of my old job, artist grants, as you so elegantly stated.
Eleanor, this sounds like a tough, but very necessary job! And I totally agree--I think, for me, what I maybe didn't get at here, is it's another transparency issue in an industry that already lacks transparency. So, if you're grasping at straws and someone claims to have an in--whether they do or not, how do we vet what's real? I think, too, you literally wouldn't know otherwise, right? You would take the advice and do some research, but could you actually (italics) KNOW what coaches are saying is real. I don't know. I do think there are some amazing coaches who do brilliant work, and then some where I wonder what they do at all. The fees are another thing--it feel like a PRICE TAG for knowledge that's simply not available anywhere else--which I guess is how we've built capitalism but bleh.
Absolutely, capitalism is set up to keep knowledge opaque and gated (and so is philanthropy I found working in that world, but that's a topic for another day)! I think that sometimes we all want the secret to or formula for success and as you stated, it looks different for everyone and is dependent upon so many factors! I do think there are great coaches out there, but I also I wonder sometimes, what are they offering besides accountability and encouragement (important) in shiny, branded packaging. I also left my non-profit job for corporate marketing, so maybe I am a bit cynical. All this to say, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this!
Your note about encouragement also made me wonder if this is a space that would be traditionally taken up as a sort of writers community, writers group, even a group of friends who understand the writing world fairly and can get by in talking through ideas and brainstorms and be that encouragement factor. I do feel like we've lost real-life community in the past few years alongside the rise of coaches and the one thing it definitely is, is human-to-human. And also maybe I'm cynical too, and I'm sniffing it out from the perspective of like ... but would I (EYE!) pay for this? I appreciate your thoughts too--from multiple angles!
Thank you! You articulated it exactly: In late capitalism/everyone is a brand/the gig economy we've monetized care and community and taken the human connection beyond a monetary exchange out of it. I do think that many of the roles coaches fill can and do happen in writers groups, community, and among friends. Maybe it's the old DIY punk in me, but often with some of what coaches offer I find myself asking, "Could I get this in a mutually beneficial community instead? Can I build this myself?" Again, I see value in institutions (I have an MFA) and getting professional guidance and support (I love writing workshops! I'm working with a developmental editor!) but I always start with what can be built in community first. Thank you again for all your thought and conversation around this.
"That coach is one of the good ones, partly due to choosing wins from the start."
I know *exactly* who you're talking about, lololol. Accurate assessment!
Hahahaha I figured I was giving it mostly away, but went nameless for conspiracies 😂
I'll never tell!
Can coaching help authors play the long game? That's a crucial skill. 🙏 for an interesting post.
I wish I knew! But probably!
Someone finally said it.
lol.
This is very, very good.
That's because you're one of the good ones. I've literally been saving up for your next call for readings!!!